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	<title>Comments on: How many college graduates does America really need?</title>
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	<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/</link>
	<description>Working adults and the new world of higher education</description>
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		<title>By: E148</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-28308</link>
		<dc:creator>E148</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 21:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-28308</guid>
		<description>Anthony Bernard Says:

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, in his “I have a dream” speech, looked forward to a day when everyone would be treated equally and judged on character, not characteristics. Higher education can lead to that state of enlightenment.

Underemployment? Is employment the main or only reason to earn a college degree? I think not. Human existence is for enlightenment–higher education helps us down that road.

[A college education is a characteristic. Enlightenment is not something that is taught. It is something that is learned. You can learn it on your own by reading library books or books where-ever you find them. You do not need to go to college. It is not the only reason but without a job an education can be wasted.]

February 14th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

TPoise Says:

I agree with Ashley. Especially in the IT/Technology field, there is massive employment opportunities, however (Google it for verification) there are many studies that show that there are declining interest and graduates in I.T. and Computer Science fields. So at a time when demand is growing, our supply is shrinking. [Where are all these IT/Technology field jobs, India?] 

We have to get away from the “Old Economy” ways of going to a 4-year school to get a liberal arts degree in Art History or Music Therapy and expect to be hired by their dad’s friend as a stock broker. Those days are gone, competition is king in America, and Americans will have to learn to compete against other Americans, and other nationals if they truly want to become “fully” employed.
[When was this ever true? I have had the education needed for the jobs I have held, probably too much. I did not think that that was even possible.]

Becoming gainfully employed with a great career is not some secret society that one must be born into, however in today’s “New Economy”, education is a must. However, not many students are being taught about the alternatives of online education, or the “New Economy” career fields, which aren’t the traditional professional fields of being a lawyer or doctor.

[These types of classes never were marketed much. Correspondence courses in general have never really been advertised and taken advantage of.]

February 20th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

Kelly Says:

Living in the United States where “anything is possible” there are far too many kids turning 18 who have no idea what to major in much less fend for themselves. In a society where we have instant gratification, technology at the touch of a finger, education (especially public) has sadly dwindled to just teaching the standardized test material and not much more. Music, and the Arts are being taken out of schools with alarming regularity which leaves our kids lagging behind in most other subjects as well as lagging behind other nations as it relates to education; which, in turn makes them ill equipped for higher education.

[Yes teach to the test is the mantra. It is ironic that since the federal government got into education the standardized test scores have gone down.  SAT scores, and Math and Science world rankings we  have gone down in the past 20-30 years.]


February 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm

Christine Croysdill Says:

I am one of those other 85 percent, returning to school in my fifties. I did the traditional college routine, right out of high school, and I have always been glad I did. I attended and graduated from a small, private college with a double major in history and political science. Did I immediately do anything with that? Nope. I went to college to learn, because learning fascinated (and still fascinates) me.

[Learning has always fascinated me too. I went to college part time from 1983-2000, while working full-time. I had the equivalent of 60 semester hours before I started and working in Electronics. As of July 2000 I have the equivalent of 273 semester hours. I have degrees in Electronics (Equivalent of Associate of Applied Science), Mathematics (Associate of Science), Computer Information Science (Bachelor of Liberal Studies)  and Computer Information Systems (Master of Science). That is 9.1 years of college at 30 semester hours per year. I got laid off May 2002 and have had 3 contract jobs and lay offs since. I have worked only 2 out of the past 8 years. I still cannot get a job.  However, you do not have to go school to continue to learn. So an education does NOT necessarily mean a job, especially if you are over 40.]



February 25th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

Jason K Says:

 [As I said I got an MS CIS. I got it from the University of Phoenix—online. At that level, at least, the instructors were providing the lecture and commenting on papers etc. But they did allow us more latitude than at the undergraduate level. They tended to stay out of the class discussions but not entirely.]

March 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pm

johnathan rose, PhD, MBA Says:

Until we solve global warming, starvation, the energy crisis and the healthcare insurance crisis we
need as many college graduates as possible. Why limit educating and developing minds for problem identification and problem solving when so many international worries exsist?

[It is kind of ironic that we, as a world, probably have more college educated people then ever before in history and yet the problems are not only not getting solved they are getting worse.  

Consider: If we built water desalinization plants, many of them, we could pipe the fresh water where ever it was needed. It could mean instead of giving countries $Billions for food that just keeps them in poverty and promotes starvation, they could irrigate and growth their own food and have enough fresh drinking water ( and sewers/waste treatment plants). If you also piped some of this water through hydro-electric power plants they and we could have more electric energy that is cleaner that coal and safer than nuclear. If we had a better electrical power grid we could charge up the electric cars the would also reduce greenhouse gases. Work on battery development in parallel. This would reduce global warming, starvation, energy crisis, and help with health insurance in the sense that people would be healthier in more places in the world, including here at home. Doing this would also employ tens of thousands for decades.]

March 30th, 2008 at 7:33 am</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony Bernard Says:</p>
<p>Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, in his “I have a dream” speech, looked forward to a day when everyone would be treated equally and judged on character, not characteristics. Higher education can lead to that state of enlightenment.</p>
<p>Underemployment? Is employment the main or only reason to earn a college degree? I think not. Human existence is for enlightenment–higher education helps us down that road.</p>
<p>[A college education is a characteristic. Enlightenment is not something that is taught. It is something that is learned. You can learn it on your own by reading library books or books where-ever you find them. You do not need to go to college. It is not the only reason but without a job an education can be wasted.]</p>
<p>February 14th, 2008 at 6:07 pm</p>
<p>TPoise Says:</p>
<p>I agree with Ashley. Especially in the IT/Technology field, there is massive employment opportunities, however (Google it for verification) there are many studies that show that there are declining interest and graduates in I.T. and Computer Science fields. So at a time when demand is growing, our supply is shrinking. [Where are all these IT/Technology field jobs, India?] </p>
<p>We have to get away from the “Old Economy” ways of going to a 4-year school to get a liberal arts degree in Art History or Music Therapy and expect to be hired by their dad’s friend as a stock broker. Those days are gone, competition is king in America, and Americans will have to learn to compete against other Americans, and other nationals if they truly want to become “fully” employed.<br />
[When was this ever true? I have had the education needed for the jobs I have held, probably too much. I did not think that that was even possible.]</p>
<p>Becoming gainfully employed with a great career is not some secret society that one must be born into, however in today’s “New Economy”, education is a must. However, not many students are being taught about the alternatives of online education, or the “New Economy” career fields, which aren’t the traditional professional fields of being a lawyer or doctor.</p>
<p>[These types of classes never were marketed much. Correspondence courses in general have never really been advertised and taken advantage of.]</p>
<p>February 20th, 2008 at 3:38 pm</p>
<p>Kelly Says:</p>
<p>Living in the United States where “anything is possible” there are far too many kids turning 18 who have no idea what to major in much less fend for themselves. In a society where we have instant gratification, technology at the touch of a finger, education (especially public) has sadly dwindled to just teaching the standardized test material and not much more. Music, and the Arts are being taken out of schools with alarming regularity which leaves our kids lagging behind in most other subjects as well as lagging behind other nations as it relates to education; which, in turn makes them ill equipped for higher education.</p>
<p>[Yes teach to the test is the mantra. It is ironic that since the federal government got into education the standardized test scores have gone down.  SAT scores, and Math and Science world rankings we  have gone down in the past 20-30 years.]</p>
<p>February 20th, 2008 at 8:20 pm</p>
<p>Christine Croysdill Says:</p>
<p>I am one of those other 85 percent, returning to school in my fifties. I did the traditional college routine, right out of high school, and I have always been glad I did. I attended and graduated from a small, private college with a double major in history and political science. Did I immediately do anything with that? Nope. I went to college to learn, because learning fascinated (and still fascinates) me.</p>
<p>[Learning has always fascinated me too. I went to college part time from 1983-2000, while working full-time. I had the equivalent of 60 semester hours before I started and working in Electronics. As of July 2000 I have the equivalent of 273 semester hours. I have degrees in Electronics (Equivalent of Associate of Applied Science), Mathematics (Associate of Science), Computer Information Science (Bachelor of Liberal Studies)  and Computer Information Systems (Master of Science). That is 9.1 years of college at 30 semester hours per year. I got laid off May 2002 and have had 3 contract jobs and lay offs since. I have worked only 2 out of the past 8 years. I still cannot get a job.  However, you do not have to go school to continue to learn. So an education does NOT necessarily mean a job, especially if you are over 40.]</p>
<p>February 25th, 2008 at 8:57 pm</p>
<p>Jason K Says:</p>
<p> [As I said I got an MS CIS. I got it from the University of Phoenix—online. At that level, at least, the instructors were providing the lecture and commenting on papers etc. But they did allow us more latitude than at the undergraduate level. They tended to stay out of the class discussions but not entirely.]</p>
<p>March 29th, 2008 at 1:01 pm</p>
<p>johnathan rose, PhD, MBA Says:</p>
<p>Until we solve global warming, starvation, the energy crisis and the healthcare insurance crisis we<br />
need as many college graduates as possible. Why limit educating and developing minds for problem identification and problem solving when so many international worries exsist?</p>
<p>[It is kind of ironic that we, as a world, probably have more college educated people then ever before in history and yet the problems are not only not getting solved they are getting worse.  </p>
<p>Consider: If we built water desalinization plants, many of them, we could pipe the fresh water where ever it was needed. It could mean instead of giving countries $Billions for food that just keeps them in poverty and promotes starvation, they could irrigate and growth their own food and have enough fresh drinking water ( and sewers/waste treatment plants). If you also piped some of this water through hydro-electric power plants they and we could have more electric energy that is cleaner that coal and safer than nuclear. If we had a better electrical power grid we could charge up the electric cars the would also reduce greenhouse gases. Work on battery development in parallel. This would reduce global warming, starvation, energy crisis, and help with health insurance in the sense that people would be healthier in more places in the world, including here at home. Doing this would also employ tens of thousands for decades.]</p>
<p>March 30th, 2008 at 7:33 am</p>
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		<title>By: johnathan rose, PhD, MBA</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>johnathan rose, PhD, MBA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-275</guid>
		<description>Until we solve global warming, starvation, the energy crisis and the healthcare insurance crisis we
need as many college graduates as possible. Why limit educating and developing minds for problem identification and problem solving when so many international worries exsist?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until we solve global warming, starvation, the energy crisis and the healthcare insurance crisis we<br />
need as many college graduates as possible. Why limit educating and developing minds for problem identification and problem solving when so many international worries exsist?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jason K</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-266</guid>
		<description>I agree with those who have posted saying that education is life-long and continuous. Education is never wasted just displaced sometimes. I think that unless you are going for higher education focused on the cold, hard sciences then your skills can be applied in a multitude of environments. In looking at myself, I went for a degree in social services and now transitioned over to &#039;Corporate America&#039; in the insurance industry. I think the key is theory and knowing when and where to apply it and in higher ed. programs at the Masters level linking that with practical application. 

Granted, economics does dramatically impact access to work and positions but the process of completing that initial job search or subsequent searches is to assess bot the subjective andobjective &#039;halves&#039; of ones background. 

It has been my experience, even within my Capella University, that there are some who are completing the bare minumum and subsequently the course instructors are not always actively involved in the diaologue occuring in the courseroom. Some are calling it &quot;moderation&quot;; I think standards and metric-based measurements are necessary to not only maintain corporate or institutional standards but to also drives the mission toward larger picture goals and objectives - not just making the experience about paying for a name-sake degree but making it an actual, practical application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with those who have posted saying that education is life-long and continuous. Education is never wasted just displaced sometimes. I think that unless you are going for higher education focused on the cold, hard sciences then your skills can be applied in a multitude of environments. In looking at myself, I went for a degree in social services and now transitioned over to &#8216;Corporate America&#8217; in the insurance industry. I think the key is theory and knowing when and where to apply it and in higher ed. programs at the Masters level linking that with practical application. </p>
<p>Granted, economics does dramatically impact access to work and positions but the process of completing that initial job search or subsequent searches is to assess bot the subjective andobjective &#8216;halves&#8217; of ones background. </p>
<p>It has been my experience, even within my Capella University, that there are some who are completing the bare minumum and subsequently the course instructors are not always actively involved in the diaologue occuring in the courseroom. Some are calling it &#8220;moderation&#8221;; I think standards and metric-based measurements are necessary to not only maintain corporate or institutional standards but to also drives the mission toward larger picture goals and objectives &#8211; not just making the experience about paying for a name-sake degree but making it an actual, practical application.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Christine Croysdill</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Croysdill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-116</guid>
		<description>I am one of those other 85 percent, returning to school in my fifties. I did the traditional college routine, right out of high school, and I have always been glad I did. I attended and graduated from a small, private college with a double major in history and political science. Did I immediately do anything with that? Nope. I went to college to learn, because learning fascinated (and still fascinates) me. 

I had my own computer-related business for many years, but sold it and got out even before the PC made the scene. I became a teacher. I&#039;ve been doing that for 20 years, now, in a very low income public school, trying to share with my students my love of learning.

I&#039;m now enrolled in an MS program at Capella, in Reading and Literacy. Yes, it will mean a raise when I&#039;m done. That wasn&#039;t the motivation for me, however. I needed to learn more about literacy, and how to teach it in the very diverse world that is my classroom these days. 

I had the choice of two close-by brick and mortar schools, both excellent. But spending all day in a classroom, followed by spending my evenings in a classroom just didn&#039;t work for me. Online was the answer for me, because I attend when I can, not when the class is offered.

I&#039;m attending full time, and I have to admit, the amount of work is almost unmanageable, but I&#039;m persevering. I do question, though, if more consideration ought to be paid to how busy the working adult&#039;s life is when deciding on course work. In one course this quarter, I have two research papers, 3 clinicals requiring at least a week of instruction each, 2 or 3 discussions requiring research weekly, and random requests to provide lesson plans for discussion postings, as well as all the reading. And that&#039;s just one course.
While I understand, and applaud, the need for rigorous coursework, I do think some thought should be spent on how the online experience differs from the traditional, and just how much work should be demanded in each course. (I still fail to understand, for instance, the requirement to write two papers on the same subject in one course.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of those other 85 percent, returning to school in my fifties. I did the traditional college routine, right out of high school, and I have always been glad I did. I attended and graduated from a small, private college with a double major in history and political science. Did I immediately do anything with that? Nope. I went to college to learn, because learning fascinated (and still fascinates) me. </p>
<p>I had my own computer-related business for many years, but sold it and got out even before the PC made the scene. I became a teacher. I&#8217;ve been doing that for 20 years, now, in a very low income public school, trying to share with my students my love of learning.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m now enrolled in an MS program at Capella, in Reading and Literacy. Yes, it will mean a raise when I&#8217;m done. That wasn&#8217;t the motivation for me, however. I needed to learn more about literacy, and how to teach it in the very diverse world that is my classroom these days. </p>
<p>I had the choice of two close-by brick and mortar schools, both excellent. But spending all day in a classroom, followed by spending my evenings in a classroom just didn&#8217;t work for me. Online was the answer for me, because I attend when I can, not when the class is offered.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m attending full time, and I have to admit, the amount of work is almost unmanageable, but I&#8217;m persevering. I do question, though, if more consideration ought to be paid to how busy the working adult&#8217;s life is when deciding on course work. In one course this quarter, I have two research papers, 3 clinicals requiring at least a week of instruction each, 2 or 3 discussions requiring research weekly, and random requests to provide lesson plans for discussion postings, as well as all the reading. And that&#8217;s just one course.<br />
While I understand, and applaud, the need for rigorous coursework, I do think some thought should be spent on how the online experience differs from the traditional, and just how much work should be demanded in each course. (I still fail to understand, for instance, the requirement to write two papers on the same subject in one course.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 02:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-90</guid>
		<description>Living in the United States where &quot;anything is possible&quot; there are far too many kids turning 18 who have no idea what to major in much less fend for themselves.  In a society where we have instant gratification, technology at the touch of a finger, education (especially public) has sadly dwindled to just teaching the standardized test material and not much more.  Music, and the Arts are being taken out of schools with alarming regularity which leaves our kids lagging behind in most other subjects as well as lagging behind other nations as it relates to education; which, in turn makes them ill equipped for higher education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living in the United States where &#8220;anything is possible&#8221; there are far too many kids turning 18 who have no idea what to major in much less fend for themselves.  In a society where we have instant gratification, technology at the touch of a finger, education (especially public) has sadly dwindled to just teaching the standardized test material and not much more.  Music, and the Arts are being taken out of schools with alarming regularity which leaves our kids lagging behind in most other subjects as well as lagging behind other nations as it relates to education; which, in turn makes them ill equipped for higher education.</p>
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		<title>By: TPoise</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>TPoise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-87</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ashley.  Especially in the IT/Technology field, there is massive employment opportunities, however (Google it for verification) there are many studies that show that there are declining interest and graduates in I.T. and Computer Science fields.  So at a time when demand is growing, our supply is shrinking.

We have to get away from the &quot;Old Economy&quot; ways of going to a 4-year school to get a liberal arts degree in Art History or Music Therapy and expect to be hired by their dad&#039;s friend as a stock broker.  Those days are gone, competition is king in America, and Americans will have to learn to compete against other Americans, and other nationals if they truly want to become &quot;fully&quot; employed.  

Becoming gainfully employed with a great career is not some secret society that one must be born into, however in today&#039;s &quot;New Economy&quot;, education is a must.  However, not many students are being taught about the alternatives of online education, or the &quot;New Economy&quot; career fields, which aren&#039;t the traditional professional fields of being a lawyer or doctor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ashley.  Especially in the IT/Technology field, there is massive employment opportunities, however (Google it for verification) there are many studies that show that there are declining interest and graduates in I.T. and Computer Science fields.  So at a time when demand is growing, our supply is shrinking.</p>
<p>We have to get away from the &#8220;Old Economy&#8221; ways of going to a 4-year school to get a liberal arts degree in Art History or Music Therapy and expect to be hired by their dad&#8217;s friend as a stock broker.  Those days are gone, competition is king in America, and Americans will have to learn to compete against other Americans, and other nationals if they truly want to become &#8220;fully&#8221; employed.  </p>
<p>Becoming gainfully employed with a great career is not some secret society that one must be born into, however in today&#8217;s &#8220;New Economy&#8221;, education is a must.  However, not many students are being taught about the alternatives of online education, or the &#8220;New Economy&#8221; career fields, which aren&#8217;t the traditional professional fields of being a lawyer or doctor.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley Bindl</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Bindl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-73</guid>
		<description>No....college students today are not getting what they need to make informed choices about their degrees and careers.  At 18, most students have a dream of going to college, but they have NO idea what they want to do.  Being 24 myself, going through a PhD program through Capella, I have seen so many my age graduate with degrees that were &#039;convenient&#039; but not practical.  Those people now make up the majority of your servers, bartenders, and substitute teachers in the world. By the time these people finally know what they want to do with their life, they have to many student loans and other debt to continue schooling.  That, and most colleges do not elp you look at your &#039;other&#039; choices, i.e., online education.  They simply want you to stay 5 or 6 years with them, give your money to their school, and not worry about you later in life when you are unable to use your art history degree.  

I appreciate the blog and hope that it will shine some light on this crisis going on in the education realm.  It is overlooked, many times, becasue if you are not directly linked to it, then why think about it at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No&#8230;.college students today are not getting what they need to make informed choices about their degrees and careers.  At 18, most students have a dream of going to college, but they have NO idea what they want to do.  Being 24 myself, going through a PhD program through Capella, I have seen so many my age graduate with degrees that were &#8216;convenient&#8217; but not practical.  Those people now make up the majority of your servers, bartenders, and substitute teachers in the world. By the time these people finally know what they want to do with their life, they have to many student loans and other debt to continue schooling.  That, and most colleges do not elp you look at your &#8216;other&#8217; choices, i.e., online education.  They simply want you to stay 5 or 6 years with them, give your money to their school, and not worry about you later in life when you are unable to use your art history degree.  </p>
<p>I appreciate the blog and hope that it will shine some light on this crisis going on in the education realm.  It is overlooked, many times, becasue if you are not directly linked to it, then why think about it at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Bernard</title>
		<link>http://www.theother85percent.com/2008/02/how-many-college-graduates-does-america-really-need/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=7#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, in his &quot;I have a dream&quot; speech, looked forward to a day when everyone would be treated equally and judged on character, not characteristics. Higher education can lead to that state of enlightenment. 

Underemployment? Is employment the main or only reason to earn a college degree? I think not. Human existence is for enlightenment--higher education helps us down that road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, in his &#8220;I have a dream&#8221; speech, looked forward to a day when everyone would be treated equally and judged on character, not characteristics. Higher education can lead to that state of enlightenment. </p>
<p>Underemployment? Is employment the main or only reason to earn a college degree? I think not. Human existence is for enlightenment&#8211;higher education helps us down that road.</p>
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