Comments on: Adults Students and Public and Land-Grant Universities http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/ Working adults and the new world of higher education Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:48:27 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Mike Offerman http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11628 Mike Offerman Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:51:34 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11628 Ann-Marie, thanks for a very thoughtful posting. You have presented a clear challenge for all of us involved in doctoral level online education. I appreciate your stating the challenge and agree that the kind of experience you describe is very important. Mike Ann-Marie, thanks for a very thoughtful posting. You have presented a clear challenge for all of us involved in doctoral level online education. I appreciate your stating the challenge and agree that the kind of experience you describe is very important.

Mike

]]> By: Anne-Marie Conn http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11468 Anne-Marie Conn Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:06:43 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11468 I too have a different perspective on the remarks made by Chester Gardner. Being employed within the field of academia at a major brick and mortar university, and attending Capella for almost four years now, I am shocked at the very different focus and overall approach to teaching. In my opinion, the fact that faculty at the University of Illinois are devoted to scholarship and teaching more traditional students is reflective of the current inability to integrate traditional learning models into a distance learning format, and not necessarily an issue with age. At the graduate level of learning, and particuarly in doctoral studies, a very important aspect is the ability of the student to engage in experiential learning that will provide them with the competency and experience necessary to pursue independant scholarship post graduation. Because we have not been able to figure out how to provide the necessary traditional mentorship experiences, such as student engagement in faculty research and teaching assistanship, faculty who value this level of guidance in preparing students for post doctoral work will place a lesser value and interest on distance learning. I think rather than attempt to convince scholars that distance learning is valued because it affords the adult learner oppourtunities they wouldn't otherwise have, what we should focus on is making the distance learning format one that allows for the type of faculty mentorship that trains students to become competant scholars themselves by providing these experiences within a doctoral program. This will then speak for itself. Capella has been at the forefront of providing the non traditional student a way to achieve educational and career goals that would otherwise be impossible; our next task is to be at the forefront of providing faculty the oppourtunity to teach and mentor on the individual level, so there is confidence in the distance learning format as one that can provide the environment necessary to train students to be scholars of the highest quality. I too have a different perspective on the remarks made by Chester Gardner. Being employed within the field of academia at a major brick and mortar university, and attending Capella for almost four years now, I am shocked at the very different focus and overall approach to teaching. In my opinion, the fact that faculty at the University of Illinois are devoted to scholarship and teaching more traditional students is reflective of the current inability to integrate traditional learning models into a distance learning format, and not necessarily an issue with age. At the graduate level of learning, and particuarly in doctoral studies, a very important aspect is the ability of the student to engage in experiential learning that will provide them with the competency and experience necessary to pursue independant scholarship post graduation. Because we have not been able to figure out how to provide the necessary traditional mentorship experiences, such as student engagement in faculty research and teaching assistanship, faculty who value this level of guidance in preparing students for post doctoral work will place a lesser value and interest on distance learning. I think rather than attempt to convince scholars that distance learning is valued because it affords the adult learner oppourtunities they wouldn’t otherwise have, what we should focus on is making the distance learning format one that allows for the type of faculty mentorship that trains students to become competant scholars themselves by providing these experiences within a doctoral program. This will then speak for itself.

Capella has been at the forefront of providing the non traditional student a way to achieve educational and career goals that would otherwise be impossible; our next task is to be at the forefront of providing faculty the oppourtunity to teach and mentor on the individual level, so there is confidence in the distance learning format as one that can provide the environment necessary to train students to be scholars of the highest quality.

]]> By: Mike Offerman http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11192 Mike Offerman Fri, 15 May 2009 21:00:36 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11192 Paul, I appreciate you taking time to comment. Mike Paul, I appreciate you taking time to comment.

Mike

]]> By: Mike Offerman http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11191 Mike Offerman Fri, 15 May 2009 20:59:47 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11191 Hunt, thanks for taking time to share what is happening at Colorado State University. It sounds good and I am pleased to hear that tradition, innovation, and service to adults is alive and well at CSU. Mike Hunt, thanks for taking time to share what is happening at Colorado State University. It sounds good and I am pleased to hear that tradition, innovation, and service to adults is alive and well at CSU.

Mike

]]> By: Paul Angileri http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11139 Paul Angileri Tue, 12 May 2009 15:59:40 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11139 Without question I agree that these universities should see their duty as serving as many willing and capable people as possible. At the very least, the sentiment reported above tells me that there is still a lot of traditional perspective - perhaps too much - happening at brick-n-mortar universities. What is the honest reason for NOT going after that working adult pool? It makes economic sense in the long run (if perhaps not the short), and it's a way of meeting the modern learner halfway. Modern life just doesn't allow for on-site attendance the way it once did, and with concerns for urban congestion, the environment, spending time at home with family, you name it, the proposition seems to be an easy one. Obviously it's not, and I can't honestly claim to know how a universities budget is broken up and how and where money is spent. But the proposition is at least worth consideration. Paul Without question I agree that these universities should see their duty as serving as many willing and capable people as possible. At the very least, the sentiment reported above tells me that there is still a lot of traditional perspective – perhaps too much – happening at brick-n-mortar universities. What is the honest reason for NOT going after that working adult pool? It makes economic sense in the long run (if perhaps not the short), and it’s a way of meeting the modern learner halfway.

Modern life just doesn’t allow for on-site attendance the way it once did, and with concerns for urban congestion, the environment, spending time at home with family, you name it, the proposition seems to be an easy one. Obviously it’s not, and I can’t honestly claim to know how a universities budget is broken up and how and where money is spent. But the proposition is at least worth consideration.

Paul

]]> By: Hunt Lambert http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-11040 Hunt Lambert Sat, 09 May 2009 16:14:56 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-11040 Colorado State University, Colorado’s land grant, has never forgotten its adult learners. I understand Chet’s comments as the faculty reward system at a Carnegie I research university provides no incentive for faculty to reach out to non-traditional students, but that does not mean we do not serve them. CSU’s Division of Continuing Education serves about 7,000 adult learners each year with direct support of our campus faculty. In addition, CSU has created a completely new campus devoted entirely to non-traditional students using exclusively online teaching. CSU Global Campus is now a separate university under statute and is pursuing independent accreditation, but most importantly, it partners with our other two campuses to assure academic quality while utilizing the best online practices and tools to assure affordability and access. We went from nothing to fully operational in 11 months and have served 900 students in our first 7 months of classes. Tradition is not lost as CSU and neither is innovation and adult learner customer focus. Hunt Lambert, Associate Provost of CSU Continuing Education and CEO of CSU Global Campus Colorado State University, Colorado’s land grant, has never forgotten its adult learners. I understand Chet’s comments as the faculty reward system at a Carnegie I research university provides no incentive for faculty to reach out to non-traditional students, but that does not mean we do not serve them. CSU’s Division of Continuing Education serves about 7,000 adult learners each year with direct support of our campus faculty. In addition, CSU has created a completely new campus devoted entirely to non-traditional students using exclusively online teaching. CSU Global Campus is now a separate university under statute and is pursuing independent accreditation, but most importantly, it partners with our other two campuses to assure academic quality while utilizing the best online practices and tools to assure affordability and access. We went from nothing to fully operational in 11 months and have served 900 students in our first 7 months of classes. Tradition is not lost as CSU and neither is innovation and adult learner customer focus.

Hunt Lambert, Associate Provost of CSU Continuing Education and CEO of CSU Global Campus

]]> By: Mike Offerman http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-10836 Mike Offerman Tue, 05 May 2009 13:25:20 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-10836 Bryon, thanks for your thoughtful comments. And you are correct that not everyone at a land-grant can be focused on outreach and some must focus on traditional students. What I am pressing for is an appropriate balance and fear that the balance has shifted, with other aspects of the state university taking priority over outreach or service to adults. Again, I appreciate your comments. Mike Bryon, thanks for your thoughtful comments. And you are correct that not everyone at a land-grant can be focused on outreach and some must focus on traditional students. What I am pressing for is an appropriate balance and fear that the balance has shifted, with other aspects of the state university taking priority over outreach or service to adults. Again, I appreciate your comments.

Mike

]]> By: Bryon Kirwan http://www.theother85percent.com/2009/05/adults-students-and-public-and-land-grant-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-10832 Bryon Kirwan Tue, 05 May 2009 11:55:34 +0000 http://www.theother85percent.com/?p=150#comment-10832 Mike, I think your thoughts are spot on as to what a Land Grant should be. However Dr. Gardner has a valid point. I am a former Extension employee so this hits me differently than many. It appears to me that the University of Illinois continues to move away from its role as a Land Grant university, and it has other responsibilities in its charter. It has the duty and the obligation to reach out to the non-traditional learners and individuals. Not everyone can come to campus. That was the original impetus for the Extension Service, the local 'front door' to the University. That said, it does not mean that the Global Campus should be for everyone. It must also be noted that not every person on campus has that outreach responsibility. Many individuals, many roles, many responsibilities. Not all of them are outreach, so some individuals, faculty, etc. focusing on traditional learners is to be expected, and is necessary. I think you may be reading Dr. Gardner's comment with too broad of an implication. I see a number of online educational options for adult learners. Having participated in them, having undergraduate and graduate degrees obtained traditionally, and an MBA earned through a Cohort program, I am struck how hard it is to learn in an online format. It seems to me that the system competes against itself...some of the classes that lend themselves to online content are some of the lower level classes (100, 200 level) but as working adults trying to advance professionally we are seeking the 300, 400, and 500 level classes. My experience has been that a different kind of learning occurs in these upper division classes due to discussion and spontaneous generation of ideas. My graduate school experiences have been that advanced education is more of a discussion as opposed to the more technically based undergraduate degree. That does not mean it cannot be done in an online format, but my experince has been it is certainly more difficult. Online education brings value and opportunity to many. Recripriocity regarding credits being earned at different institutions remains the final hurdle in an online environment. Bryon Mike,

I think your thoughts are spot on as to what a Land Grant should be. However Dr. Gardner has a valid point. I am a former Extension employee so this hits me differently than many.

It appears to me that the University of Illinois continues to move away from its role as a Land Grant university, and it has other responsibilities in its charter. It has the duty and the obligation to reach out to the non-traditional learners and individuals. Not everyone can come to campus. That was the original impetus for the Extension Service, the local ‘front door’ to the University. That said, it does not mean that the Global Campus should be for everyone. It must also be noted that not every person on campus has that outreach responsibility. Many individuals, many roles, many responsibilities. Not all of them are outreach, so some individuals, faculty, etc. focusing on traditional learners is to be expected, and is necessary. I think you may be reading Dr. Gardner’s comment with too broad of an implication.

I see a number of online educational options for adult learners. Having participated in them, having undergraduate and graduate degrees obtained traditionally, and an MBA earned through a Cohort program, I am struck how hard it is to learn in an online format. It seems to me that the system competes against itself…some of the classes that lend themselves to online content are some of the lower level classes (100, 200 level) but as working adults trying to advance professionally we are seeking the 300, 400, and 500 level classes. My experience has been that a different kind of learning occurs in these upper division classes due to discussion and spontaneous generation of ideas. My graduate school experiences have been that advanced education is more of a discussion as opposed to the more technically based undergraduate degree.

That does not mean it cannot be done in an online format, but my experince has been it is certainly more difficult. Online education brings value and opportunity to many. Recripriocity regarding credits being earned at different institutions remains the final hurdle in an online environment.

Bryon

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